Mat Amp
This is Mat Amp interviewing Andrea Gilbert on the 12th of the first 2024.
Hi, Andrea, how you doing?
Andrea Gilbert
Hi, Mat. I’m good, thank you. You?
Mat
Yeah, brilliant, thanks. Yeah, we’re talking today about a case where a family were very unfairly evicted, or they were trying to evict them and Andrea has got involved in this. Could you just give us a little bit of a background for a start? Thanks.
Andrea
Yes, so I’ve been working with an Irish traveler family and it’s a single mother with seven children. So Irish travelers are from the nomadic community, but the majority are now living in houses due to caravan sites not being permanent and also there’s no transit sites. So, what tends to happen nowadays are a lot of them are basically pretty much forced into housing rather than continuing to live the nomadic way. And we also got the Romani community as well, who have been here for 1,000 years. They still tend to live nomadically, but again, they’re facing issues of being forced into housing too.
And then we’ve got the Roma community as well, who tend to come from central Europe or Eastern Europe as well, or pretty much across any part of Europe, but they tend to not live nomadically and are facing issues with homelessness as well.
So, yeah, it’s a good community to work with and this case just pretty much stems from this mother had issues with arrears and the arrears were just over £800 and I’ve just recently had to apply for Breathing Space for her and was successful doing it. [If you live in England or Wales, you can get temporary protection from your creditors while you get debt advice and make a plan. This scheme is called ‘Breathing Space’]. And although she was given a warrant and if I hadn’t applied for this Breathing Space, she would have been kicked out with the family on the 18 January.
Mat
And she has seven kids, right. So those kids, some of them are under 16 as well, are they?
Andrea
Obviously, the majority of them are under 16. Five of them are under 16.
Mat
Wow. So, they were going to put a family with five kids under 16 out on the street?
Andrea
Yeah. I couldn’t believe it.
Mat
Do you think that community, Andrea, is kind of singled out for special attention as far as…?
Andrea
Oh, yeah, of course. I can give an example. With my eviction right, my arrears were £10,000 or just literally under £10,000. But obviously I didn’t end up having to pay any of that because my landlord wasn’t paying her mortgage payment. But, yeah, when I was in £813 arrears, for example, she didn’t even bother getting in contact with me. It wasn’t until things were really bad, obviously, in her eyes, which was obviously £10,000, that’s when she took me to court. But, yeah, even when I was living in council housing, I wasn’t receiving letters about £813 arrears, you know what I mean?
Mat
Yeah. And from what you told me, it seems there’s two parts to this eviction that are completely unfair. The other part was that the police were raiding the place and there were no convictions from those raids. But yet that’s part of the eviction is for antisocial behaviour.
Andrea
Yes. Obviously, I attended a meeting yesterday to find out exactly what the eviction was, because in order for me to apply for the Breathing Space, I needed to know the arrears. Now, this woman, she didn’t know what her arrears were. She didn’t have a clue what the arrears were.
So, I found out and then obviously they’ve now attached the court fees and the court costs as well, which was £355 for the court application and £155 for the court fees. So, yeah, they then tried to add that on and then they brought up the raids and everybody was saying there’s been no prosecutions [as a result of the raids] and they literally had no answers for it. Yeah.
Mat
Just to clarify for people listening, what we’re talking about here is the police raiding the family for drug possession or dealing or whatever it may have been, and finding nothing on those raids. Or if they did find something, no prosecutions have come about from them. But surely the people causing the nuisance are the police. They’re the ones battering the door down and causing the…
Andrea
Yeah, because another thing that came up is this house is completely unsafe for this family to live in due to rats, mould and damp, and obviously there’s been issues with the children as well and people coming to the house. And between the police and social services and the council, nobody has moved this family yet.
The mother has now been accused of failing to protect her children and put on a child protection plan. She’s made contact with these services herself, telling them what’s going on and nobody has supported her. She’s up for eviction. Nobody’s told her that she could go to Citizens Advice or legal advice and that she’s entitled to that for free to find out what she can do in terms of the eviction. None of this has taken place until I met her and started doing the work.
Mat
This is really an interesting point as well, because if you’re going to get in contact with services and then be investigated by them, you’re not going to get in contact with them for help, are you? Do you see what I mean by that? If you’re struggling…
Andrea
Well, yeah. This is exactly what takes place amongst these communities, like Roma and travellers. Do you know what I mean? This is consistently what I see, the lack of engagement with services. And that’s both ways. The communities and the organisations, when you talk to some organisations, they don’t have a clue about the culture, how these people live.
They don’t have a clue what’s going on. They tend to avoid it, avoid interacting, and it’s leading to people potentially losing their children, being evicted and going about the vital things they need, for example, like the energy vouchers, food bank vouchers for those that are struggling. These people are simply not getting this information and it’s just unacceptable in 2024 when it’s even taking place. Do you know what I mean? It’s absolutely ridiculous.
Mat
So, have you learned quite a lot, then from talking to people in this community about the way that they work and the sort of things that help with communication and stuff?
Andrea
Well, yeah, it would be good if people inform them of what’s going on. So, I’ve seen good examples across the country, in particular with Citizens Advice and Samaritans who are doing brilliant work with these communities and we need other organisations that have got the funding, to you know what I mean, to actually get involved in this type of work, because obviously there is high rates of suicides in the Irish traveller community that is 11% higher than non-travellers, and we need to be focusing on these things. It’s really disgraceful that they’re not fully engaged with what’s going on.
Mat
Yeah, but you mentioned a few organisations there that are doing the right sort of thing, so it sounds like there is movement in the right direction, sort of thing.
Andrea
Yeah, but it’s not enough and there’s no awareness of what’s going on, do you know what I mean? Due to the fact that mainstream media or any other form of media are not reporting on it, and if it is reported, it’s only being shared amongst the community, do you know what I mean? It needs everyone to be sharing this stuff so that people are well informed of what’s going on.
Mat
What did you do to help this family? What did you do?
Andrea
In terms of what I have done? I managed to get some legal advice and from that legal advice I then helped them with the Breathing Space application. It was successful and then from there I’ve sent the letter that she has to send to the council and stuff to the legal. Back to the legal team who were brilliant. Greater Manchester Law Centre is absolutely brilliant.
So, I highly recommend any of the listeners who need support from Manchester to go and use them because they were absolutely brilliant. Obviously now she’s got a Breathing Space. The Breathing Space lasts for 60 days, so she won’t be harassed about the money, and she won’t be moved out of the property now. And that gives us 60 days to pay off the arrears, which we are doing, which I’m basically applying for discretionary housing fund for the £813 to be paid. Hopefully we have enough evidence to obviously prove that she’s in this situation. If that gets paid off, then obviously when she moves on now, she won’t have the arrears on her. So that’s what I’m focusing on now with dealing with her. And then now I’ve also helped to get one of the children some home education as well.
So, I sent off an email for that yesterday.
Mat
What role is it that you actually got connected with this family? Is that the work you do with.
Andrea
I was hired through Gypsy Traveller League, so I’m advocating for that organisation now on behalf.
Mat
Okay. And this approach you made to the law centre, you just phone them up, do you, and make an application like that?
Andrea
Right. So, what I did was book her an appointment with the civil legal service. So, what they do is they do a finance check to make sure that you’re eligible for legal aid. If you pass that, then you do the application and then give them a bit of a background of what’s been going on. You book a phone call with them they call you back. So, they called her in the morning and then from there, because she explained that she can’t read and write. I was then sent an email about the next steps and then from there I’ve just literally applied for the Breathing Space.
And yeah, we were successful, luckily, and we were cutting it fine because obviously she would have been out on the 18th. And the council’s plan, which I really want to quickly hit on, was to literally put her in bed and breakfast and then after that, if she applies for housing through them, they can refuse that application, according to the housing association, because she apparently was potentially intentionally making herself homeless, so it was all going to be a mess and I just told them that that wasn’t going to be happening and we were going for Breathing Space, which they weren’t impressed with when they heard that I was going for that.
Mat
So, they’re saying she intentionally made herself homeless by not paying the rent.
Andrea
And then obviously there’s the raid, they’re really pressing heavy on the antisocial behaviour. It’s just absolutely ridiculous. But it just goes to show, if you don’t have anyone supporting you, especially if you’re illiterate, this is what can happen. You can end up in trouble for something that you can actually fight, do you know what I mean? And that’s the problem here…[To clarify Andrea is making the point that people are getting into trouble for things that they would not get into trouble for if they knew how to get support and who to get that support from].
These organisations didn’t exactly tell her that she could go out there and get some support, which is very concerning because all of us have the right to know that we have got support out there to fight these things, do you know what I mean? And that’s what I find quite alarming.
Mat
Yeah, fantastic, Andrea I mean, thanks so much for that. It’s been brilliant. And is there anything else you just want to add before we wind things up?
Andrea
Yeah, I would just like to see Gypsy, Roma, travellers, homeless stories, like, shared amongst the homeless communities, because they are going through a lot at the moment in terms of the new laws, the new trespassing laws that are stopping them from travelling normally across the country.
There’s no permanent sites and transit sites and we need people to be going to their council meetings to support these sites being created so people can rent around the country like they have for a thousand years.
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5a79e68040f0b670a8026416/designinggypsysites.pdf
Mat
Yeah, thanks, Andrea Just one very quick last thing, though. Have you learned quite a lot from working with this community?
Andrea
Yeah, it’s going to be my third year working with them and I’ve learned a lot about the discrimination they face that I don’t experience. Do you know what I mean? It’s educated me in other forms of racism that happen in this country. It’s also showed me that it’s not just Black people, Asian people or people with the skin tone that go through racism.
Mat
Yeah, just to give your comment a bit of context, you’re a black woman saying this.
Andrea
It’s just obviously showing me different forms of discrimination that takes place in a country and the form of discrimination that Gypsy, Roma, and travellers face is still accepted. Do you know what I mean? You don’t get prosecuted for it. It’s allowed. You see it on social media and barely anyone apart from the communities or anyone that’s involved in it are reporting it.
You see the racial slurs on social media, and nothing really gets done. There’s been t shirts, do you know what I mean? They only focus on a small minority that are in the caravans, when in fact, the majority of these communities live in housing, are now going through the same things we are going through with mould and damp. That’s what I see.
I’m always on the phone to pest control, dealing with these things, do you know what I mean? Because they’re just not dealt with. They’re not taken seriously. You get in contact with the police on their behalf. The police barely do anything. It’s really disheartening to see. But obviously, I’m going to continue supporting them and always will. Yeah.
Mat
I mean, it’s really good to see that there are people working with these communities. Honestly, Andrea, that’s been brilliant. Thanks so much for that.
Andrea
No problem. You take care now.
Mat
You, too.
